Revolutionary Pet Cancer Vaccine Revealed!
Discover the groundbreaking advancements in veterinary oncology with Ashley Kalinauskas, CEO of Torigen. Learn how personalized cancer vaccines are revolutionizing pet cancer treatment by using a pet’s own tumor cells. This episode of Vetsplanation delves into the science behind these innovative vaccines and their impact on thousands of pets. Don’t miss this insightful discussion on the future of veterinary medicine.
What You’ll Learn:
How personalized cancer vaccines for pets are developed
The science behind using a pet's own tumor cells for treatment
Types of cancers targeted by Torigen's vaccines
Practical steps in creating and administering the vaccines
Benefits and potential side effects of the treatment
Combining immunotherapy with chemotherapy and radiation
Insights into the future of veterinary oncology
Torigen's role in advancing cancer treatments for pets
Real-life examples and success stories of treated pets
How veterinarians and pet owners can access and utilize these treatments
Ideas Worth Sharing:
"With an immunotherapy, we're utilizing the cells of the immune system to fight the cells that are remaining." - Ashley Kalinauskas
"Radiation plus immunotherapy, like both preclinically in our lab, and then also what we're seeing out in the field is it really has this additive effect. It's truly the scenario where one plus one can equal five." - Ashley Kalinauskas
"When we're dealing with something as serious as cancer, we want to be able to get you the answers that you need, so we really welcome veterinarians to reach out and we'd be happy to help any way we can." - Ashley Kalinauskas
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Read The Transcript:
Dr. Sugerman: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Vetsplanation, your go-to podcast for all things veterinary. We're thrilled to bring you an enlightening conversation with Ashley Kalinauskas, the founder and CEO of Torigen.
Dr. Sugerman: Torigen is at the forefront of veterinary oncology, pioneering personalized cancer vaccines that have the potential to transform cancer treatment in pets. In this episode, Ashley shares the fascinating journey of how cutting edge technology developed in a university lab evolved into this really amazing groundbreaking solution for animals who are suffering from cancer.
Dr. Sugerman: So join us as Ashley delves into the science behind Torigen's innovative approach , which involves using a pet's own tumor cells to create a personalized vaccine. This method not only preserves the unique antigens of the tumor, but it also stimulates the immune system to fight the cancer more effectively.
Dr. Sugerman: Ashley discusses the practical aspects of how this treatment works and [00:01:00] types of cancers that it targets and the promising results they've seen so far. So whether you're a veterinary professional, a pet parent, or someone interested in the latest advancements in veterinary medicine, this episode is packed with valuable insights.
Dr. Sugerman: Learn how Torigen is making a significant impact in the lives of thousands of pets, and how this technology could shape the future of veterinary cancer treatments. So sit back, relax, and get ready to be inspired by the incredible work that's being done at Torigen. Let's dive into this exciting interview with Ashley on Vetsplanation.
Dr. Sugerman: All right. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Vetsplanation, I have Ashley Kalinauskas. Ah, so close. Ashley Kalinauskas with me from Torigen.
Dr. Sugerman: All right, so I'm really excited to be talking to you today can you just tell me a little bit about Torigen?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Ashley. I'm the founder and CEO of [00:02:00] Torigen, and I started the company right from grad school.
Ashley Kalinauskas: So at the University of Notre Dame, I was working in a lab that had developed really a cool technology for the creation of a personalized cancer vaccine. And the backbone of our technology was really how we preserved the antigens on the surface of a tumor cell, So that they retained their shape, but still were immunogenic when presented back.
Ashley Kalinauskas: So what we were able to do was take those tumor cells, preserve them, combine them with an innovative biomaterial that really aided in an adjuvanting approach in order to help stimulate the immune system against cancer. In our lab we had worked on prostate cancer, ovarian cancer, melanoma, mammary carcinoma, really advancing this for the potential for the human market.
Ashley Kalinauskas: And it wasn't until my professor and co founder, mark, his own dog, developed metastatic oral squamous cell carcinoma [00:03:00] that we said, what about the veterinary market?
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah, that's amazing. There's so many many things happen in human world, that we wish we have over in the veterinary world. So I'm really really excited that you guys did that.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Me too. And I think it was just a really amazing choice for us. And, being able to help, now thousands of dogs, cats, and horses, it's just been truly an amazing journey.
Dr. Sugerman: Are you guys thinking about working on exotic animals?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah, we actually do treat a few exotics, not too many to date, but we've had a one bearded dragon, a lot of ferrets. We, we treat a lot of rats.
Ashley Kalinauskas: That's like our, our main bread and butter in the lab was rats and mice. And then I think we have one bird, but I am no bird immunology expert by any stretch of the matter.
Dr. Sugerman: I think that this could even help like zoo animals. It could be be just amazing.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Exactly. Especially when chemotherapy really can't be an option for certain animals or we don't have any protocols for them.
Dr. Sugerman: Absolutely.[00:04:00]
Dr. Sugerman: Now, when we have these tumors, from what I understand is that we have to remove the tumor, the whole thing, and then send a send piece to Torigen, right?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah, so we say tumors to Torigen, not in formalin, so my little jingle. So we require the tumor to be sent into us.
Ashley Kalinauskas: We want as much of that tumor as possible. And once that tumor comes in, what we're going to do is we're going to save representative portions of those cells, take those, put it in our minus 80 freezer. Take the rest of that tumor, put it into formalin, and send it off for a histopathological diagnosis.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Now, the other option is that maybe veterinarians just want to save a few punches, a few punch biopsies, so they can take as much as they can to save representative portions. Send that into us, take the rest, put it into formalin. But we like to see ourselves as really that tumor concierge service, that we can handle that tumor for you from start to [00:05:00] finish.
Ashley Kalinauskas: And our goal is to develop our own pathology service later this year.
Dr. Sugerman: Very cool. That'd be be amazing.
Ashley Kalinauskas: I'm excited for it.
Dr. Sugerman: So does it matter if the tumor is is removed, or what if just a portion of the of the tumor is removed?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah, so with an immunotherapy, we're utilizing the cells of the immune system to fight the cells that are remaining.
Ashley Kalinauskas: So I give the example of if I took a punch biopsy out of a tumor on a chihuahua that's the size of a football, we have a lot of cells that we need to start fighting against and inside of a tumor micro environment, there's a lot of inhibition that goes on. There's a lot of down regulation of the immune system.
Ashley Kalinauskas: So when we're able to take out more of that tumor and really 70 percent or more is the benchmark I like to use, then we know that we're at least overcoming some of that inhibitory kind of cells that are still left in that micro environment, but I [00:06:00] love to position immunotherapy as the cleanup afterwards.
Ashley Kalinauskas: If we didn't get good margins, if we know that we've had cells that are still left there and remaining, or we have a tumor with a high metastatic potential, leveraging immunotherapy in that way can really be a good positioning of this product.
Dr. Sugerman: Nice. So you say about 70%. Does it matter like the size? Cause if I have a dog who came in the other day who's literally his tumor was like the size of a basketball. Is it still gonna matter that 70%?
Ashley Kalinauskas: I think if we have a tumor the size of a basketball, our goal is going to change for the immunotherapy. If we can let it, if we take out, as much as we can, but we only took out of a softball out of the size of the basketball, then can we just hold it and let in place for a longer period of time.
Ashley Kalinauskas: And if we could do that, then I think that's going to be a win for that patient. If we start to see that tumor start regressing over time, [00:07:00] then again, I think that's going to be a win too. But, if we have the majority of that tumor removed, we're utilizing the immunotherapy as the better cleanup.
Ashley Kalinauskas: I think that's going to be really where we can start, you know, how long could we prevent that tumor from coming back for as long as possible.
Dr. Sugerman: Nice. And then we give this this back to the pet?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah. So once the tumor comes to us, we're again, saving those representative portions. And then once the veterinarian gives us the green light to move forward with the vaccine production, what we're doing is we're bringing it into the lab.
Ashley Kalinauskas: We're taking those tumor cells, preserving the antigens on the surface, because when I think of cancer, I really think of it as the fingerprint of what went wrong. So those proteins on the surface are an exact replica of the DNA that has been mutated that has now resulted in these novel proteins.
Ashley Kalinauskas: So we want to preserve those. We take those, we bring it down to a [00:08:00] cellular level, we deactivate everything, combine it with our innovative adjuvant and then it's really a vaccine vial. And the vaccine is given back once per week for three weeks, administered subcutaneously, and we recommend administration next to a lymph node when possible.
Dr. Sugerman: Oh, interesting. Okay.
Dr. Sugerman: What, you prefer like popliteal lymph like the one in the back of the legs for people who don't know that what that is?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah. So it depends on where the tumor is. So if we do have a tumor on the leg being able to administer right at next to the popliteal lymph node, I think can be a great option.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Otherwise the nape of the neck would be fine too for the vaccine irregardless. So that you're able to have that systemic administration over time.
Dr. Sugerman: Great.
Dr. Sugerman: And then can you use this with chemotherapy and radiation as well or it need to be separate from from that?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah, so it absolutely can be combined with chemotherapy and radiation therapy.
Ashley Kalinauskas: We recommend for certain chemos, certain chemos can be paired with this even on the [00:09:00] same day, depending on what it is, and actually can have this really amazing additive effect. But if there's any hesitancy towards what chemotherapy you're utilizing, reach out to our team, reach out to our veterinary oncologists that are on staff and able to help to be like, what does this combo look like?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Just because we don't want an immunosuppressive environment in that pet. So one of the things we recommend against is prednisone. We want that pet to be off prednisone for two weeks because that's going to suppress the immune system and just reach out to us if there's any questions or concerns about what combo therapies can be done.
Ashley Kalinauskas: And we'll help provide that timing. With radiation therapy. That's the one that gets me really excited. So radiation plus immunotherapy, like both preclinically in our lab, and then also what we're seeing out in the field is it really has this additive effect. It's truly the scenario where one plus one can equal five.
Ashley Kalinauskas: So not only can you have a local [00:10:00] desiccation and degradation of the tumor that's still there, but adding in a systemic effect in order to help prevent that tumor from coming back for a longer period of time or decreasing the potential for metastatic nodules to be and pop up, I think that it becomes really exciting opportunity.
Dr. Sugerman: Wow, I know that our oncologist who comes into our clinic, she really loves using this.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Thank you. Yeah. I think it can become an option for the owners that either want to do it all, or maybe it's a combination of just surgery plus this vaccine to be utilized.
Dr. Sugerman: And can it be used with any sort of tumor?
Dr. Sugerman: Let's say maybe even like a tumor the spleen?
Ashley Kalinauskas: So we have really strong data for our metastatic hemangiosarcoma, so it can be utilized for tumors of the spleen. It can be used for any solid tumor. So the most common that we treat are the hemangiosarcomas, mast cell tumors, soft tissue sarcomas, melanomas, [00:11:00] squames.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Those are our top five. Lymphomas are the ones that, we're really not well positioned for.
Ashley Kalinauskas: If we're able to get a lymph node biopsy, then yes, we can create the vaccine and we would recommend a combination with chemotherapy.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Maybe start with chemo, get it down to, the minimal residual disease that we really can't find it because one of the hard parts about lymphoma is it's just everywhere because it's a bloodborne cancer. Being utilizing chemo to get our exponential curve down to a really small level and then pairing immunotherapy on as more of that cleanup effect is where I think we're better positioned.
Dr. Sugerman: Nice. It seems like this is something that can be worked the future as well for like new cancers or new innovative things.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Absolutely. I think that there's some really amazing combinations that can be done with immunotherapy. And I'm so excited to continue the research there so that we can understand where that best positioning could be.
Ashley Kalinauskas: I know one of the [00:12:00] ones that makes me really excited is utilizing our vaccine alongside Gilvetmab, which is a new monoclonal antibody specifically for mast cell tumors and melanomas. And If you're able to... we talked about that inhibitory tumor micro environment that you're always trying to overcome no matter what therapy by utilizing a product like Gilvetmab that really helps turn on the immune system inside of that micro environment.
Ashley Kalinauskas: If you have that basketball size tumor, and now you start having a turn on inside of the immune system at a higher level, and then you're activating and driving more T cells that are going to help fight those tumor cells there. Like our product plus a product like a monoclonal antibody, Gilvetmab, can really can really do some cool things.
Dr. Sugerman: Wow.
Dr. Sugerman: What if the pet has multiple types of cancers? Can it work for that?
Ashley Kalinauskas: A great question. So because we're [00:13:00] utilizing the actual cells of that tumor, let's say if we have multiple mast cells, if we only take one of those mast cell lesions, is there a possibility that we can affect, the numbers two, three and four.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Absolutely. Now, if we only take a mast cell tumor and we expect it to work against, maybe the patient has a oral melanoma at the same time, then no, we're not going to be able to have an effect by utilizing the mast cell tumor against that oral melanoma. They are two different types of cells. Now, And let's say if both of those cell samples were submitted in, we can create a, normally we'll separate them out into two series of the vaccines and that they can be given at the same time because they're fighting different targets.
Dr. Sugerman: Wow. I didn't realize they could be given at the at same. I assumed it would have to be like stacked thing.
Ashley Kalinauskas: At the same time shouldn't be a problem because you're able to stimulate both sides at once. Stacking it could maybe have a little bit of a potential benefit, but it's unknown because [00:14:00] hopefully not many patients are coming in with two separate types of cancer at the same exact time for treatment.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah, I've had one that was a splenic tumor and a tumor on the liver. They're two completely different ones.
Dr. Sugerman: You just just never know it's going to happen.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Absolutely, absolutely.
Dr. Sugerman: And then can any veterinarian use use this service?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah, any veterinarian can work with us and leverage our team and kind of the white glove tumor concierge service.
Ashley Kalinauskas: We work with a lot of referral practices that partner with the oncologist that we work with. Because a lot of times the referral veterinarian is the one that's doing the surgery the first time. So if they send that tumor into us and we save a portion and bank it, what we're leaving open is the option for immunotherapy.
Ashley Kalinauskas: So that immunotherapy can go back to that general practitioner or it could be sent to the oncologist for administration too. It's really up to their comfort level. But yeah, we work with all veterinarians.
Dr. Sugerman: Nice. And are there are [00:15:00] any side effects that we need to know about?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah, so really well and, and understood safety profile here that's been well published too. Injection site redness, irritation at the injection site and just mild lethargy.
Ashley Kalinauskas: So like when we get the flu or COVID vaccine and we feel a little, little yicky for that day, that's really what we see. And in the world of cancer therapies, that's really not much.
Dr. Sugerman: Exactly. We can have some really bad effects to some of these chemotherapies.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Totally. And you know, chemotherapy is meant to depending on what the mechanism is, we're trying to kill those cells that are there, or we're trying to completely, disrupt that regulation, but we're giving it systemically.
Ashley Kalinauskas: So we're disrupting a lot of things in the, in the making. Whereas with a targeted immunotherapy, your goal is to build up the immune response against the antigen that you're providing back. So you're able to have that highly targeted approach that the side effects that we see are because the [00:16:00] immune system is becoming activated, not because of other things happening.
Dr. Sugerman: And I know you had kinda talked about the cost before.
Dr. Sugerman: How is this this in comparison to like chemotherapy and radiation therapy?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah, we're typically about half the cost of chemotherapy. So we're an affordable option that can be considered inside of veterinary medicine.
Dr. Sugerman: That's fantastic.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Thank you.
Ashley Kalinauskas: And, I think with our team and building out the expertise that we have, we're just so happy to, to be able to help and be able to answer questions that veterinarians may have. And customer service is number one to us, of course, but when we're dealing with something as serious as cancer, we want to be able to get you the answers that you need, so we really welcome veterinarians to reach out and we'd be happy to help any way we can.
Dr. Sugerman: Are pet parents allowed to call in as well?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Of course, pet parents are allowed to call in, but we really [00:17:00] defer all answers to the veterinarian and all questions. And we would be happy to even touch base with your veterinarian or give you something to hand to your veterinarian.
Ashley Kalinauskas: But we don't know that pet and we don't know your pet. When a pet parent calls in, as long as surgery is an option and we're talking to you prior to surgery, then we would be happy to give you a handout to talk to your veterinarian about utilizing a personalized immunotherapy.
Dr. Sugerman: And how do we get all the materials and stuff to the veterinarian to send it to you?
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah. On our website Torigen.com, T O R I G E N .com, we have a veterinarian resource hub, and then you can also email us info@torigen.com, give us a call. We will, you can pick up the styrofoam cup and try to, try to answer it. We will get to you no matter how we can, and we would be so happy to talk to you.
Dr. Sugerman: Amazing. Was there anything else you wanted you to share Ashley?
Ashley Kalinauskas: No, I, I just, I'm really proud [00:18:00] of the little company that we're building. I'm really excited for our future as we build on our new diagnostic service. And I think that there's just a lot that we can do as a veterinary community to help have more pets treated after a cancer diagnosis.
Dr. Sugerman: You call it a little company, but I feel like this is going to be like such a huge thing.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Hope so. And I think, I think that oncology deserves it and it deserves novel products that are positioned both within oncology, within specialty practice, but then GPs as well, so that more pets can be treated. And, I think there has to be more focus here because with 50 percent of all dogs over the age of 10 dying from cancer, we need more therapies to help.
Dr. Sugerman: And I think this is a new thing, 50 years ago we didn't have a lot of pets dying from cancer. They just didn't live as long.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Yeah, exactly. They died of [00:19:00] heartworm, or, other more preventable diseases, or, were living out in the, in the yard, but now as our pets are our children and our babies, we're trying to do everything that we can, so our pets are living longer, they're living right beside us, and, they're developing very similar cancers that humans get, too, that we're seeing in our animals.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Add on breed specificity for certain tumor types and, we're, we're left with certain breeds developing certain tumors at almost predictable time points and being able to have more therapies to help them is just what we need in the industry.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Sugerman: So I always ask a question at the end.
Dr. Sugerman: Do you have any pets?
Ashley Kalinauskas: I do. Hang on. There's my photo of him. That's Dave mini golden doodle. He's the love of my life and my, my baby.
Dr. Sugerman: Aww.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Then here at the office, so we're a pet friendly, outside of our laboratory, we have a friendly side of the office. So we have two, [00:20:00] two pups in here today. We have Piper, an Australian Shepherd, and we have Reggie, a giant pit bull that is the biggest and cutest hippopotamus that you've ever seen.
Dr. Sugerman: That's amazing. I love that it's such a pet friendly area.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Absolutely. It has to be.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah.
Dr. Sugerman: All right. Thank you, Ashley. I really appreciate you coming on to talk about Torigen. Like I said, I think this is going to be such a huge thing, so I I really appreciate it.
Ashley Kalinauskas: Thank you. I appreciate being here, too, and happy to help anyone that wants to reach out.
Dr. Sugerman: Awesome. Thank you everybody for listening in. As always, please make sure to sure your pets happy, healthy, and safe.
Dr. Sugerman: Thank you for tuning in to this enlightening episode of Vetsplanation. We hope you found our discussion with Ashley of Torigen as fascinating and as informative as we did. Ashley's insights into the personalized cancer vaccines and their potential to revolutionize veterinary oncology is truly inspired.
Dr. Sugerman: As always, we aim to bring you the latest and most impactful developments in veterinary [00:21:00] medicine. If you have any questions or want to learn more about the topics we discussed today, be sure to visit Torigen's website at Torigen, T-O-R-I-G-E-N, Torigen.com Remember, you can always reach out to your veterinarian to discuss how these advancements might be a benefit to your own pet.
Dr. Sugerman: We appreciate your continued support and encourage you to share this episode with fellow pet lovers and veterinary professionals. Don't forget to subscribe to Vetsplanation on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss another episode. So stay tuned for more expert interviews and insightful discussions to help keep your pets happy, healthy, and safe.
Dr. Sugerman: Next week we'll be talking to Blake Dubé from Pawprint Oxygen about how to help our pets receive oxygen during transportation and at home. We'll see you next week.