Empowering Chimpanzee Welfare: Learn, Donate, and Make a Difference Today
Delve deep into the heart of chimpanzee sanctuary life with an exclusive behind-the-scenes glimpse into our daily operations. From providing safe anesthetic experiences during dental procedures to hosting enriching birthday parties for our beloved residents, every moment is a testament to our dedication. Join us as we share heartwarming stories, discuss conservation efforts, and explore how you can support our mission to provide sanctuary and care for these remarkable creatures.
What You’ll Learn:
Gain insight into the daily operations of a chimpanzee sanctuary.
Learn about the challenges and triumphs of providing safe anesthetic experiences for dental procedures.
Explore the enriching activities and celebrations, such as birthday parties, that contribute to the well-being of sanctuary residents.
Understand the importance of sanctuary rehabilitation for rescued chimpanzees.
Discover how sanctuary life transforms the lives of rescued primates and fosters resilience.
Explore the ongoing efforts in chimpanzee conservation and advocacy.
Learn about the various ways to support the sanctuary's mission, from donations to volunteering.
Gain a deeper understanding of the complexities of sanctuary care and the dedication required to provide compassionate care for rescued chimpanzees.
Ideas Worth Sharing:
"We're here because people believe in the sanctuary and believe that these chimpanzees deserve a life in sanctuary." - Dr. Erin Zamzow
"Sanctuary is completely dedicated to making their lives as good as they can be. We're here to serve them." - Dr. Erin Zamzow
"All of us wish that chimps were in Africa where they belong." - Dr. Erin Zamzow
Resources From This Episode:
Chimpanzee Sanctuary Northwest Website
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Subscribe To My Podcast
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Voluntary PayPal Donations:
https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=DNZL7TUE28SYE
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Read The Transcript:
Dr. Sugerman: [00:00:00] Hi, and welcome to Vetsplanation. I'm your veterinary host, Dr. Sugerman, and I'm going to teach you about veterinary medicine. In this podcast, we can dive deeper into the understanding of what our pets are going through and break down medical terms into easier to understand chunks of information. Just a quick disclaimer, this podcast is for informational purposes only.
This is not meant to be a diagnosis for your pet. If you have questions about diagnostics or treatment options, please talk to your veterinarian about those things. Remember, we are all practicing veterinary medicine and medicine is not an exact science. Your veterinarian may have different treatment options and different opinions.
The information I provide here is to help pet parents have a better understanding about their pets. If you like our podcast, please consider sharing this podcast with at least one friend or just somebody else who has pets as well. Now, let's jump into this week's episode.
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Vetsplanation. I am your veterinary host, Dr. Sugerman,, [00:01:00] and I have a really special treat today. So I'm here with Dr. Erin. She is the veterinarian at the Chimpanzee Sanctuary of the Northwest.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, Chimp Sanctuary Northwest.
Dr. Sugerman: Northwest, yes.
So thank you so much for being on. We really appreciate this.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Thank you.
Dr. Sugerman: So we were actually, I came up here to help with one of their procedures today. So I was hoping we could talk about like how you, first of all, came to be a veterinarian at the sanctuary.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Okay. The short answer is I was willing to do it.
Dr. Sugerman: I know you have so much knowledge in other species. You worked with many other species.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, I've, I've worked a lot with horses, dogs, cats. Those are the main domestic species. I now have had some cattle experience because we have four Jersey cattle at the sanctuary and I've rescued four pigs, so I know a little bit about that too.
But the long answer [00:02:00] is a very good friend of mine is very good friends with. Roger and Debbie Feltz's daughter. And so I met the Fletzs' through her and she was like, Oh, you should have Erin be your vet for the chimps at the college. There were still three chimpanzees from Washoe's family.
They're the sign language chimps that, that lived up at Central Washington University. And I thought that's great, but I don't know anything about chimps. But I guess, I was like, okay why not, we'll give it a try. I'll try to learn. So there wasn't a whole lot that needed to be done there.
Just basic things like checking for parasites and recommending deworming, dispensing or prescribing pain medications, things like that, antibiotics for infections. Not a whole lot, not a whole lot of hands-on there, but...
Dr. Sugerman: It's still quite a learning curve, though. It is very different.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: [00:03:00] Yes.
Dr. Sugerman: Just even how you look things up, right?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, and what I do, is what I do now. And what I've always done is I rely on the veterinary community. I rely on my colleagues. And I'm not afraid to ask questions and I'm not afraid to not know, which I think is important no matter what kind of medicine you're practicing.
Dr. Sugerman: Absolutely.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Ask, learn. There's always more things to learn even when you think, you've got a lot under your belt. Through that program, I met a lot of the interns and got to know some of the interns, both as friends and actually clients of my small animal practice and actually met J. B. and Diana when they brought their dog to me. And so just got to chatting and, and I was like, yeah, that's, that sounds really interesting, and so I just was like... there was another veterinarian in town that had helped with the chimps at Central, for years, but he was getting to [00:04:00] retirement.
And then there was another veterinarian that lived in Seattle that was the veterinarian of record here, but then she ended up moving back east and so there was a vacancy, and so I really did the same thing, all pain meds, injuries, just advising on a volunteer basis, came up and did a few procedures that occurred again, on a volunteer basis and just...
Honestly, the first few anesthetic procedures that had to be done, I was I was so nervous.
Dr. Sugerman: !I bet.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: I was so like overwhelmed, just what am I doing, why, why am I doing this? And, but I don't know, I guess maybe working... I graduated in 1990 and like we were talking about, you did everything, right?
You, you, you did. All the surgeries, you did orthopedics, you did intestinal surgeries, splenectomies, there wasn't the option to do a lot of [00:05:00] referrals for specialty stuff, whatever needed to be done. Complicated dental procedures, all that. There's definitely that.
Let's give it a try. And then working with horses in the field a lot of times, you just gotta. deal with what you have to work with. You don't always have a clinic or, a nice situation. Yeah, so I've just, I started to really, really fall in love with the chimpanzees.
And just with the organization. This is a incredibly positive work environment. A very, it just, being a vet, a lot of us go through a lot of burnout and a lot of stress and a lot of heartache with, and I will admit there's been many times over the years when I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore.
I'm done. I just, I want to go. Be a barista, or work at a school, or, I just don't want all this pressure,
Dr. Sugerman: I think [00:06:00] all of us have that backup plan, yes.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yes, yes, so what is it? I'm working at a hardware store? Yeah, unfortunately we can't afford to, but, yeah. But over time, this has really become one of my, just the highlights, absolute highlights that I get to do because I'm a veterinarian and it's not that I don't, enjoy my interactions with other clients and things like that.
And especially now that I'm not on the road and doing horsework a lot, it was very physically exhausting. Love the horses. Just, Oh, I miss being in the barns and all that, but, but just exhausting long, long days. All kinds of weather, stuff like that. It's, it's not that there's not stress or pressure here, but I truly love each and every one of the people here.
And people meaning everyone that lives here. And, and it's just been, it's been great. We've ended up doing a lot more procedures over the years [00:07:00] and started out with seven chimpanzees and I was able to help with moving. nine more chimpanzees.
Dr. Sugerman: That's amazing.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Three in 2018 and six in 2021. And both of those were wonderful experiences. And I'm really, those are the things where I go, wow, I get to do this. I am so lucky.
Dr. Sugerman: Exactly.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. And I'm like a lot of vets. I struggle with depression. I struggle with imposter syndrome, all that stuff but it's extremely fulfilling working here.
And the people are. The human being, the human people... versus the cow people or the chimp people. The human people are wonderful.
Dr. Sugerman: That's fantastic.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. So it's just grown over time and now it's actually my main gig. I really like being here.
Dr. Sugerman: And you were talking about, so this is a sanctuary, and you were talking about getting more chimpanzees, so where, where, what are all their backgrounds?
Like, where do they come from?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: The original seven, the original Cle Elum seven came from a lab in [00:08:00] Pennsylvania, where they actually had been used in hepatitis vaccine research for many, many years. And so they really had a lot of, trauma in their background. At least one of 'em, Negra, was wild caught, which means her entire family had to be killed to take the baby.
Dr. Sugerman: That's terrible.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: 'cause they'd never let you take a baby chimpanzee. And so she has, what you would describe as PTSD. Trauma type reactions. Takes a while to get to know her and to, know what she needs. And but, once you do, she's neggy. She's wonderful.
But they've all had quite a degree of trauma from, the females have had repeated pregnancies, babies taken away, the um,
Dr. Sugerman: Fact that they were in cages pretty much?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: They were pretty much in cages. Cages hanging on a wall. For 20 years.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah. I was [00:09:00] told one of the males won't even go out on the grass.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. Yeah. And then nine that came in 2019 and 2021. Were at a sanctuary down in California that was closing, they had some administrative issues and very high fire danger, kind of those hills north of LA, no water. Water was being trucked up there and they had something like 400 animals and they'd already had to evacuate all of them a couple of times for fires.
So it was just an untenable situation there and it was an older place and it was, they were very well loved by their caregivers. I'm sure it was heartbreaking to have to say goodbye after that long with knowing these people. But,
Dr. Sugerman: Just a random question. Was that at Shambhala?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: No.
Dr. Sugerman: Okay.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: No.
Dr. Sugerman: That's the one I know.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: It was at the Wildlife WayStation.
Dr. Sugerman: Okay.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. Yeah. Which is just outside of Burbank. And, [00:10:00] they were born in the lab, but luckily that lab closed before they were actually used in any clinical trials or any research. So when they were pretty young, they went to the Wildlife WayStation.
So they don't have quite, they have that, not being raised by chimpanzees. So chimpanzees, they're... they're generally raised by people in the nursery.
Dr. Sugerman: Actually taken away from their parents immediately, right? So...
Dr. Erin Zamzow: In, in many instances, yeah. Especially if say their parent is still being used in research, you have to separate the mom and the baby every time.
Dr. Sugerman: It's dangerous.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: It's dangerous.
It's stressful. It's, it's all of that. It, and it's just not a normal way for... a chimp doesn't learn to be a chimp. And so there's, we have a lot of personalities. Interesting, they're all very individual, but some have a lot more. confidence issues, or [00:11:00] social awkwardness, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. But we just, we've worked with that. We took a very long time to integrate those two groups. And they're still, there's still some dust out sometime. We have, we have our Willie B that just seems to. Like to do his thing every day, and rile everyone up. But
yeah.
Dr. Sugerman: He's like the alpha one if I remember correctly. Is that right?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Psy is the alpha.
Dr. Sugerman: Psy is the alpha. That's right.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: And Willy B loves Psy. Yeah. That's... Psy is amazing. And Psy has gone to Willy B's defense before. Psy doesn't, he's a really cool... leader... Cool alpha., he'd rather be over reading his magazine.
Dr. Sugerman: I heard he was like the old dad.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. Yeah. Like now, you kids. Come on.
I don't want to have to come over there. But when he does, when he, when he does need to step in, he can be very effective.
But he holds back from what he could do. Fascinating to [00:12:00] just get to know their different personalities.
Dr. Sugerman: Even just from, being here the last time and this time, just hearing some of their stories, I remember. I can't remember which one it is, the one that really loves boots.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Jamie.
Dr. Sugerman: Jamie. That's right. Who had a boot that was made for her.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Mm hmm.
Dr. Sugerman: Yes.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jamie and her boots. Yeah. She loves looking at people's shoes. But she will, yeah, she'll take her boots with her. When they make their night nests, she'll put her boots around. She has a book of boots, that was made just for her.
Dr. Sugerman: That's amazing.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah.
Dr. Sugerman: Her shoe collection.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. She's like the alpha on this side the, original group. Which is now just six, instead of seven.
Dr. Sugerman: And then also we were talking about Lucky who likes to drive her blanket like a car.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. She, she likes to scoot. And so she'll gather up a blanket, And she'll just scoot along the floor in her blanket. And it looks like she's just driving a car. And I mean, they're endearing things, but I think we also have to remember that they're probably [00:13:00] ways of dealing with stress and anxiety.
Dr. Sugerman: Absolutely.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Honeybee is a rocker, she, she rocks. Less than she did when she first came here. But they all, not all of them, but to some degree or another, they all have to have coping mechanisms. Yeah. And some are, some actually get really pretty detrimental in chimps like they can in humans. Now like self harm, self injurious behavior. Things like that. But socially it can be tough too because if you're disrupting things every day and they do fight as we see. That's why we're here for Honeybee today.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so for Honeybee, you had an ophthalmologist who came to repair her eye. Her eyelid, at least. Yup, because she had gotten into a fight. And we did quite a few procedures on her while she was under anesthesia. Yeah, so you'll see pictures of we did an ultrasound, we did an echo, which means an ultrasound of her heart.
You did a dental on her, did a physical exam on her. you when they get put under anesthesia, it's pretty important that you [00:14:00] get so many things done at one time.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yes. Anesthetizing a chimp, or any great ape, is not to be... Well, it's like a lot of wildlife. It's just, it's not like our dogs or cats, where you can just, you know.
Hold them and cuddle them and then put an IV in and away they go. And some chimps are really good at taking hand injections and, and Honeybee, to her credit, the, the first time she was injured a couple weeks ago, she was, she was actually pretty good about it. But she's seen me now too many times and she's like, you're not getting near me.
Yeah. It's totally understandable. But it's stressful. There's always risk with general anesthesia. And as you saw today, it took a little while to get her under. And during that time, we only have protected contact. We don't go in with them unless they're anesthetized.
And during that time, we're not monitoring, heart [00:15:00] rate or, or blood pressure, things like that. So we want to get them into the clinic where we can monitor them as soon as possible. And so there's always that feeling once they're in the clinic and you've got them intubated and you've got an IV in, it's like...
Dr. Sugerman: A breeze now.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, okay, now we can really keep an eye on you.
Dr. Sugerman: Absolutely. Yeah. And then we had talked before, you had said, if everything goes well, everything's fine with her, that she doesn't have to be anesthetized for another five years. Is that right?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. Every, every sanctuary and zoo, institution has their own policies. And some places like to do yearly exams.
They feel like that's very important. We have older chimps and you have to balance being in sanctuary with doing the best you can to detect any health issues while also giving them sanctuary and choices. And so we really try to balance that out.
Dr. Sugerman: You don't want to stress them out every year by doing,
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Oh, absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. And [00:16:00] if I had a chimp with a medical condition that I needed to monitor that closely, then I would do that. Our heart patients. Heart disease is a big deal in chimpanzees, especially males. And we've got three males that are on heart medication and they generally need to have exams about every three years.
At least until we know they're very stable. Once they've had a couple of exams and nothing's really changed, our meds are working great. But then one of them will get injured and, hey, we'll end up doing an exam anyway. So it's like a rule of thumb and so we have levels of exams.
So a lot of the emergency procedures, I don't have help with. You know imaging or ultrasound or anesthesia or anything like that.
Dr. Sugerman: Can't get anybody down here quick enough.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Right. Yeah, yeah, and it's not for lack of trying sometimes but you know we do what is the most important thing that needs to be done. The wound that [00:17:00] needs to be taken care of or if they've been sick and they're doing an exam, we get the x rays, get the blood work, we do the physical exam and we get them back. We have time, we do some ultrasound. We'll do some dental procedures, but the gold standard is what we did today where we have a cardiologist here to do an echo. We have someone who can run an ultrasound that actually can get some really good images for us, especially if we have a particular thing going on.
Had two CRNA human anesthetist here. Which is oh man, that is so nice. , because I'm not always going over there looking at stuff and, and it's hard on the staff too, because they have to jump in and be in those positions. You need to watch this and turn this up and down.
And so we try to get everybody familiar with the clinic. But it tends to be, in an emergency situation, you go with the person who knows how to do it best.
Dr. Sugerman: Exactly. Yeah.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: And so our directors, J. B. and Diana, are the ones that tend to [00:18:00] know how to do it best. So it's usually, the three of us and maybe some staff people helping out.
But the staff is great. They all, they want to participate. They want to learn and very helpful. And so that's great too. So a lot of times we'll just get kind of basics done. I'll take a peek in their mouth and go on, any rotten teeth? We need you know any attention here? Because our focus is on making sure that they have a safe anesthetic experience and we get the main issue addressed. And a lot of times we'll just make a list of, ok we're going to do this first. And then this. And then if we have time and they're doing really well, we'll do this. But as you saw also a lot of times we can save some of those if we have time procedures for when they're in recovery. Because it can take sometimes, I don't know, 20 minutes or more before they're even moving enough that we have to get out of the recovery area.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah. Yeah.
That's so much that you have to do. So I'm wondering, like, where do you get the [00:19:00] funding to be able to do all the things that you are able to do?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: It's our donors. And it's, we're here because people believe in the sanctuary. And believe in that these chimpanzees deserve a life in sanctuary.
Dr. Sugerman: Right. After all they've been through.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, yeah. So our donors, our supporters. We have some fundraisers throughout the year. We have an in-person gala in Seattle every year, which is really fun. Like a dinner and different ways to donate or auctions or, things like that. We do some online events throughout the year, some online auctions and things like that.
Just opportunities to do virtual visits, things like that.
Dr. Sugerman: Very nice.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: So yeah, we do get some grants. Diana one of our co directors is really good at writing grants and she's gotten us some great grants. For specific things like medical equipment or a building or [00:20:00] something like that.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah. And then, so how do people donate to it then?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: You can go to the website just chimpsnw.org, and you can donate directly. We have a wishlist of items that we need. There will be campaigns that come up throughout the year like, uh, we're, you know, fundraising for a specific thing.
And then we know that that goes to that specific thing.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah. Very nice.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, it's great. And we do try to get to a farmer's markets in the summertime. So usually there'll be, oh, maybe one at Fremont. I think we tried to do the Fremont Fair and the Roslyn Farmers Market usually there at least a couple times in the summer, Ellensburg Farmers Market. There's some other ones I can't remember.
Kelsi is like our outreach person and she keeps track of all that.
Dr. Sugerman: You have enough [00:21:00] to keep track of.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. And we will be at some point when, when the money's there building a more of an administration building and visitor center where we can do more in person stuff. Where we can have people on-site and maybe show some cameras, what's going on in a certain area or something like that. Do some sort of outside visits, but we're not a zoo. We're not open to the public and the staff, we have a small staff and everyone's very busy and we need to schedule visits so that everything can get done in a day.
Dr. Sugerman: Absolutely. There's so much to get done just to take care of them.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: There's a lot to get done. Yeah, and, you know when it's a chimp's birthday or special occasion, we have parties. We do special things with them and it's very enriching. It's really, really fun for them.
Dr. Sugerman: Very nice.
Then do you guys take volunteers then as well?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: We have a volunteer program. And Anna Wallace is our volunteer coordinator and [00:22:00] you can inquire again, I believe through the website on that. There's quite often there's a waiting list. We unfortunately got way behind because during COVID we had to cut down, no interns. No volunteers. And so we're building that program back up. We do require that volunteers take COVID tests regularly, mask up, don't come in if you're sick, things like that. So very careful.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah. I remember I was here during COVID. Like you guys just had a skeleton crew because you just couldn't have any volunteers.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. Yeah. And one of our fantastic volunteers, Chrissy, lives in Roslyn was here today and she's what we call a level three volunteer, which we have a few of those and they can serve meals and clean and do a lot of the same stuff that the staff does it's really really helpful. All of our volunteers are great.
Dr. Sugerman: I also heard that you guys have a blog that's on the website as well to talk about what's going on with the chimpanzees?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, [00:23:00] there's actually a blog every single day.
Dr. Sugerman: Whoa, I didn't realize it was that often, yeah.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, it's amazing, and I, I don't know how the staff does it. I don't write them because I try to write something, and all the great ideas, just they're gone and I sound like a second grader. So this happened today and it was really cool, but we have some great writers on staff and it's really neat to capture and be able to share just the delight of, of, the funniness, and the silliness, and the friendships, and the, and the joy, and, and the milestones of all the chimps, and, and the cattle.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah I heard you have two famous cattle.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, it was a one season reality TV show, so I don't know how famous they are, but the, the jerseys are from a reality TV show, it was called Utopia.
Dr. Sugerman: Utopia, yeah. My wife used to [00:24:00] watch that.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Really?
Dr. Sugerman: Yes.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Okay. I have yet to watch it. But, yeah. Yeah, we have two cow calf pairs. So we have two cows, a big steer, who's eight this month, and a heifer.
Dr. Sugerman: Very nice.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Who went to WSU recently.
Dr. Sugerman: Oh, really?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah.
Dr. Sugerman: So what do you have the cattle for?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: The sanctuary was able to acquire all this property to the west of us here.
And that expanded and it goes way up the hill and into the trees. And so there's actually a lot of sort of graze... or I guess pastor land you would say. And so they're our Firewise team. They keep the brush down and all that. They love all the brows up there and all the willows and the different plants that they can nibble on.
And also they needed a home. And we would like to, at some [00:25:00] point, probably bring in some more cattle too. But, we're on a hillside. And we may end up, trying to take on. Jerseys aren't like the hardiest breed. I call them the princesses of the cattle.
Dr. Sugerman: Of the cattle, yeah.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. They all have really interesting personalities and very distinct different personalities. But we may end up with a couple of cattle that just, you know, if they need a home. We like to provide sanctuary to farm animals as well.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah. Very nice.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: No one likes my idea of bringing pigs in, but, I'm partial. They are hard, I have to say.
Dr. Sugerman: They are hard.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: They do muddy things up. Yeah.
Dr. Sugerman: So muddy. Yes.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: They dig up the ground well. Yeah.
But they're really cool.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah, we have chickens, but we also tried ducks for a little while and I can't even imagine Like the ducks were really difficult because they're also so muddy. I can't imagine a pig. It's so much more mud.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, but the cool thing [00:26:00] about pigs is they go to the bathroom away from where they eat and sleep. See, I have an old horse, too, and I'm constantly having to clean up his area. Where the pigs are like, no, this is where we sleep and eat.
Don't go here. So they're very tidy that way. But they do tear up the dirt. Especially right now when it's really muddy and all that.
Dr. Sugerman: But I was going to ask too, you had mentioned before you have like older chimps. So if I remember correctly, they're between like 40 to 50 years old.
Is that right?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, all the chimps in the original group are between 40 and 50. Negras are oldest at 50. She'll be 51 this year. And the chimps in the other nine, the California kids, are between, 33, 35y. About.
Dr. Sugerman: A little younger.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. Yeah, a little bit younger. But still, [00:27:00] they'd be considered, pretty middle aged ish. For the average lifespan. You can have chimps that live well into their 50s or even close to 60. It's not super common.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah. And I'm assuming that's more in captivity, not a wildlife chimp.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Apparently, yeah, but I think there have been some cases of wild chimps that have been, longer lived. I'm not a primatologist. All these other people here know.
Dr. Sugerman: Oh yeah, yeah. Is it JB, right?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, JB and Diane are very well versed as are a lot of our staff because they've either worked in other sanctuaries and they've been around the chimpanzee world for a long time, or they went through the Central Washington University primate behavior program.
Dr. Sugerman: A great resource for you really to be able to have them around you to be able to know all those things.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. They can remember stuff and I just ask them. I don't even have to remember.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah, we went on a tour with JB and so he definitely knew quite a lot about just even, even what their personality should be like in the [00:28:00] wild and how things work between the wild and also captivity.
So it was really interesting to hear all of that.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, and all of us wish that chimps were in Africa where they belong. That's the bottom line. All of us wish that there didn't have to be chimp sanctuaries.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah, and they cannot go back to the wild now because of the fact that they don't, don't know how to act like a chimp in the wild, right?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. And, they're not related to those chimps, it's not their family or their group, so it could be very dangerous to try to do a reintroduction. Chimps can get aggressive.
Dr. Sugerman: Are there still a lot of chimps that are in labs?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: There are, you know, you can't do research on chimpanzees anymore in the United States.
Yeah. The ruling back in 2015 made it so that you can't. But there are still many chimpanzees that are at labs, but not being, experimented on. And some of those [00:29:00] facilities are better than others as far as habitat and enrichment and all that. But, a sanctuary is completely dedicated to making their lives as good as they can be.
We're here to serve them, not just...
Dr. Sugerman: They're not here for you to do experiments on.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Or, oh, they're just left over and they're here. And I know a lot of those caregivers probably are very attached to the chimpanzee. It's like, how could you not? But, but Sanctuary is, that's what it is, it's dedicated to giving their very best life, giving them choices, giving them variety, enrichment.
Yeah,
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah, and you can see in their enclosures, they definitely have quite a lot of enrichment and, yeah.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, they have a lot of different spaces to go, fire hoses and platforms, and stairs. And upstairs and downstairs and greenhouses and...
Dr. Sugerman: Inside. [00:30:00] Outside.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah, when that really cold snap happened we didn't let 'em outside, and closed things up.
But most of the year they have access to outside. And they wanna go outside. There's still some chimps from the California group that don't regularly go outside. They've accidentally gone outside. If there's a conflict and they're like, whoa, we're gonna get you.
And they're like, oh my gosh, we're outside.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah. , what do I do now?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. Yeah. . But, but, a lot of them just really, really enjoy those areas. And, yeah. But, to a degree chimps are a little bit institutionalized and they mostly hang out inside. Even when the weather's nice.
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah. We saw when I went out there, nobody was outside until we came out there and then we're like, Oh, okay. It's nice and sunny out here. Yeah.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Or, Oh, look at the humans.
Dr. Sugerman: Exactly.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: And then, now it's nice because the two groups can see each other from both of their outdoor enclosures. And I think that provides a lot of entertainment for each other.
Dr. Sugerman: Absolutely. A lot of [00:31:00] enrichment as well. Yeah.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. Spying on the neighbors. Getting the scuttlebutt .
Dr. Sugerman: They're like the little old lady looking out the window.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah.
Dr. Sugerman: At their neighbor. I can definitely imagine that.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. What's going on over there?
Dr. Sugerman: Yeah. Nice. . Is there anything else that you wanted to share with us about the closures or about just the organization or anything in general?
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Just we, we really, encourage people to follow the blog you can go to the website, it's on Facebook, Instagram. There's a YouTube channel, so you can get to know the chimps. Get to know all about the sanctuary, and just sanctuaries in general. And we really, really appreciate the, the expertise that both human and veterinary healthcare practitioners provide, as far as, surgeons, cardiologists, all that. We've got some surgeons [00:32:00] from the local hospital, a really good friend of mine, PA, has done tons of surgery and has come up and helped on a few things. Even done an injection on Burrito's arthritic knee, things like that.
So we, yeah, just learn, learn about it, learn about their history and donate if you can. It'd be great.
Dr. Sugerman: Even material, as you were saying, just, you have that list on there just about like items and stuff that you need.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes we need extra blankets.
Stuff that's got ruined or particular books. There's books that a lot of the chimps, like there's a Lucy the bonobo book. They just love. And those get trashed and we need new ones or there's cleaning supplies, I think we just put on their wipes to clean the ultrasound probes, all that stuff.
Every little bit of that helps when something just shows up on our doorstep. And we don't have to, it gets taken out of the budget. [00:33:00] It helps that go towards, more chimp care.
Dr. Sugerman: Absolutely.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Yeah.
Dr. Sugerman: Okay. Perfect. Thank you so much, Dr. Erin. I really, really appreciate you being on here.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Thank you. And thank you for your help today.
Dr. Sugerman: Yes, you're very welcome.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Really appreciate it.
Dr. Sugerman: Yes. I always love coming to help you guys.
Dr. Erin Zamzow: Okay.
Dr. Sugerman: All right, everybody. Thank you so much. And as always, keep your pets happy, healthy, and safe. Thanks again.
Thank you guys for listening this week. If you have any questions, comments, suggestions, or you just want to say hi, you can email me at Suggs, S U G G S @ VetsplanationPodcast.com or visit the website at VetsplanationPodcast.com or find us on Facebook, Instagram, or TikTok at Vetsplanation. Thank you all for listening and I'll see you back here next week.